JOYCE MOSES
| Interviewee: | Joyce Moses | Ref No: HR20LY |
| Interviewer: | Don Davies | |
| Technician: | Clive South | |
| Length of interview: | 40:17 | |
| Date of interview: | 7/9/2005 |
Index
Track 1:
00:00 Born Pontynys Mill – grandparents there before First World War Then father about 1927 – corn brought to mill to make meal Overshot water wheel – grinding stone French burr.
01:23 Mill stopped working after 1928.
01:25 Number in family 2 girls, 3 boys. Joyce second.
01:45 20 walking to school – school at Newton – walk nearly 2 miles Bell on school range at 8.50 am.
03:10 Grandparents at cottage by school – sandwiches
03:33 Assembly, prayers, etc.
03:53 English favourite subject – three classes – two rooms – three Teachers – stove.
04:44 Wet clothes – drying room – playtime – PT – games – rounders Skipping – conkers
05:50 Special occasions – Empire Day etc – evacuees – only half days One week morning, next afternoon – Bootle evacuees – teacher Miss Keeley.
06:54 All children mixed together – outside toilets – windows shielded During War.
07:25 Wartime – gas masks – Head Teacher Miss Willets married name Tovey – Mrs Dunebin – discipline
08:45 After school – no homework – carrying drinking water from wood.
09:20 Washing water from millrace – helping mother – baking
10:20 Butter-making process.
10:46 Selling butter in Abergavenny – bus from Wain – everything on bus Including chickens
11:20 Geese by river – 30 to feather at Christmas – trained to dress a goose
11:49 Activities – Young Farmers – Sunday School after Lunch – Mrs Polly Farr and on John taught -Groves, Buildings – tickets for book (still has) – children took advantage of John.
13:05 New hat for Sunday school anniversaries – Longtown – shop Mrs Powell, Garage.
13:28 More People then
14:03 Home Guard – Wain Section – bayonet practice at Wain
14:34 On watch church belfry
14:59 Curtains
15:04 Shops – Wheelers – Prothero’s – top Prothero’s Mrs Prosser, Glan Olchon – Post Office – Garage
15:48 Grocery delivered on Saturday – rabbiting with ferret
16:33 Home-cured bacon
16:41 Bill Prothero – shoes and boots – no wellies then Lanes, cobblers.
17:21 Ewyas Harold – market – lambs – dealers – Temple Bar, Mr Williams (“Lightning”).
18:00 No travelling salesmen – no tractors – ploughed land for Potatoes during War – corn
18:45 Binder – sheaves – thrashing – “Philip & Mary” (flail) Barn at top
19:46 Hedge trimming with hook – laying hedges – cutting thistles Raking our backswarf.
20:25 Market – not much – van later on – tractor 1950s
21:05 Men on farms – crosscut saw – washing – scrubbing board
21:42 Medical – doctor at Vowchurch – measles, etc. no doctor
22:30 Mother nearly 100
22:46 dentist at School
23:12 Pubs – Longtown – grandfather pony and trap – lamps
23:57 Doors left open – stress-free life
24:30 Hobbies – knitting and sewing – lamps – only once to M & S
23:15 Three Aunts in town kept pubs – stayed – Americans – sweets
25:50 Sweet rationing – black and white Americans in pub – separated -No trouble
26:27 POWs – Italians
26:38 Working in Post Office, Longtown – 12/6d per week, six days
27:32 Socials and dances – walk to Longtown – no buses – all went Together
28:19 Eisteddfod – went but didn’t compete – music lessons, Longtown Miss Williams – London College of Music – exams – bike to Pandy To Abergavenny for Grade 1 exam
29:47 Leisure – football – climbing trees – walking – wild flowers – bird nests –
30:34 Boys fishing – tickling – fishing from upstairs window – help with Garden – growing produce – chickens
31:53 Wireless – crystal set – darts, cards – boys mad tractors with cotton reels.
32:54 Special treats – tea – school party at Christmas
33:26 Happiest Day – never been unhappy – contented
34:04 lost one brother – nursing mother for 12 years – helping people – God health – TV poor signal – money not everything -general chat
38:55 Glow-worms
39:42 Kingfishers on river
40:17 ENDS
Interview Full Transcript
Early Days
I am speaking to Joyce. I’m Don Davies, the interviewer, and the address is Pontynys Mill. And how long have you lived at this address?
All my life. I was born here.
And your grandparents?
My grandparents was here before the world war, up until after the war probably, and my grandfather came here about in about 1927 or 28 after he came out of the forces. There was a mill here and they used to bring corn to mill for pigs and cattle whatever like, not flour, but rough. Our water wheel with that overshot and grinding stones are still here in the mill and are french burr.
When did it stop milling?
I think probably my father had it going once in 1928; stopped after that.
How many were in your family.
There were 2 girls, and 3 boys. I was the second child.
Would you call this remote?
I don’t know really, because when I was going to school, there were quite a lot of other children living different places around. When we walked to school we could easily be 20 of us going from over Lower Maescoed and up the road here, they had 5 girls. You all got together and we didn’t really call it remote.
How many children are around here now do you think?
Well there are not so many now.
SCHOOL DAYS
Where did you go to school?
Newton. I started when I was 6. We had to be there at 9, and we had to walk about 2 miles, most of it uphill. They had a bell on the school on the outside the school which rang at 8:50, and if your were half a mile away, you had to put your best foot forward. We all used to go together, some faster than others. We could go over the fields, because our ground goes up to the top of the hill, and if it was fine we did go over the fields, and sometimes if our father was with us, we used to go with him because he went to the top of the hill to milk the cows. My grandparents lived at the little cottage by the school and they used to watch out for us to make sure we did not hang about as we were “dead keen” to go! We took sandwiches, and when we got to school the first thing we did was Assembly; prayers and someone did a reading from the bible, and then we had a hymn — nowadays I don’t think they have much. After that we probably had arithmetic. My favourite subject was English — I was quite good at writing compositions.
There were three classes. Class 3 was the infants, and class 2 and class l were both in the same room. We had two rooms and three teachers. It was heated by a big stove. Mrs. Pritchard the lady that lived up there, came every morning to light the stove. It was one of those big tall stoves; by about mid-day it would be red hot in the winter time. The one room was quite big and it would be very cold in the morning. There was no transport, and if it was raining, you just had to walk and get on with it, rain or shine. You got pretty wet — your clothes had to dry over the guard of the big stove. It always smelt a bit.
We had one playtime, about quarter of an hour, we played games. We used to have a lot of PT – arms stretch – I used to be quite good at that, but not racing. I was too slow; nearly always last. Yes, we had games — rounders, girls did a lot of skipping, hopscotch, played conkers, boys and girls.
Did you have special occasions?
Yes, we used to celebrate Empire Day and they sold little flags for that, and we used to always recognize all the different occasions.
WAR YEARS
When the evacuees came, we only went to school half days because there were too many for the school so one week we went in the morning and one week in the afternoon.
Where did the evacuees come from?
Bootle, Liverpool.
Did you get on all right with them?
Yes, not so bad; a lot of them didn’t quite know where they had landed. There stayed a long time; teachers and all came with them. One named Miss Keeley used to walk up and down among the desks and if you didn’t behave yourself, that ruler would come down across your hands. We were all mixed together at school and got on pretty well. To go to the toilet, you had to go outside, down the yard, round the corner. There were no indoor toilets. We used to have some kind of gauze stuff to put on the windows during the war to stop the glass shattering if a bomb fell.
Did you ever know if there was a raid going on?
No. The only thing we saw were searchlights at night. We had gas mask practice and all that business, under the desks, and what have you.
Could you write with the gas masks?
Yes, but you couldn’t see nothing, the window of the mask used to fog up.
MORE SCHOOLDAYS
The headteacher was a lady — Miss Willetts (married name Tovey). She was lovely. When I first started school Mrs. Dunebin was there. We never had a Master; always a lady teacher. Always a lady headmistress, and she could whop the cane on you if you didn’t behave. I didn’t have the cane. I was pretty quiet. Too afraid to say anything. But she managed the children quite well. The discipline was spot on. She wouldn’t have no messing; of course they didn’t in those days did they. Children had more discipline, they weren’t so cheeky. We were there until we were 14. We didn’t have homework in those days. If you weren’t very bright, you were left behind. After school we would have to carry drinking water from the wood if mother hadn’t got it. There was a stone stile. More often than not we would spill some of it. We would have a bucket each, and if we tipped out too much, we would have to go back and get another bucketful. This would take a bit of time. We had washing water coming along the millrace; it came down a spout into a big tub. There was always water running down there because it came along from the weir.
HELPING AT HOME
We had to help our mother. Me and my sister, we could cook and iron etc. before we were any age.
On a Saturday afternoon we would always make cakes for Sunday, mother used to do the bread. We were usually at school when she did most of the baking. Father used to help her with the baking. We used to rush home from school on baking day because we have could have a little bun with homemade butter.
What about butter making?
Yes. It had to separate first in the separator. The milk was bought in and put in the separator and someone had to turn the handle. Milk went into one bowl, and cream went into the other. We used to use to make about 20 lbs of butter some weeks.
How did you sell that?
Sometimes we used to take it to Abergavenny market on a Tuesday — there was a bus from up here at the Wain on a Tuesday, and a bus to Hereford on a Wednesday, and on a Saturday. Sometimes I went on the bus, it was very crowded — they used to take chickens, eggs… everything on the bus. We had geese, that used to sit down by the river; there were foxes about then, but we had a couple of geese that would sit by the side of the river and hatch their goslings. Christmas time we could have as many as 30 geese to feather. When I got older, I was trained to dress a goose.
Did they have such things as Young Farmers?
Yes, But I never went much, occasionally to a quiz or something. I never went to Young Farmers; had enough of it at home.
SUNDAY SCHOOL
Sunday school on a Sunday after dinner. Mrs. Polly Farr taught Sunday School and her son, John. They used to walk down from the top of the Bryn because they didn’t have any transport — perhaps John had a bike. I don’t know. There was quite a number at Sunday School. From the Groves and the 4 girls from up the Buildings used to come, and we had a little ticket and when you had 48 tickets you used to get a religious book. I still have several books now. When John Farr came we did used to misbehave ourselves a bit. We were a bit unruly and take advantage of him, but not when his mother came.
I always had a new straw hat for Sunday school anniversaries, and we stayed down there all day. Mrs. Powell, the Garage, used to do tea on the lawn before we’d go into the next session like.
What was the area like then?
There were more houses and people then. If you go on the road now, you can go miles and not see anybody, but you used to always see someone walking about.
HOME GUARD.
We had the Home Guard. My dad wasn’t in the Home Guard, but my Uncle was. They used to be called the Wain Section
How many?
I don’t know for sure. Most of the young and old farmers from around here. They used to do a lot of practicing here at the Wain on a Sunday; bayonet practicing, I expect they did shooting and they used to go down to the church up in the belfry at night time on watch — watch for the Germans coming. They used to get a bit nervous like being in the church at midnight in the dark; they couldn’t have any lights on you see, because of the blackout.
SHOPS IN THE VILLAGE
Do you remember much about the shops around here?
Yes, there was Wheelers shop and Prothero’s up the top of the village. He that used to sell shoes. My mother used to go there. Mrs Prosser had a shop at Glan Olchon, and the post office, and the garage used to sell sweets. Mrs. Prosser always used to give us a few extra sweets in our packet — a pennyworth in them days. – because it was wartime, sweets were on ration. We used to have a grocery delivery every Saturday; fresh meat perhaps, but we used to eat a lot of rabbits. We used to get rabbits during the war because people ate a lot of them, and it would mean pocket money for some of the younger ones; my brothers and I used to go rabbiting with a ferret, put it down the rabbit hole and sit around for a long time — would get starving hungry, and I decided I’m not having any more of this, I’m going home. This was the sort of things boys did, they got a few bob like. I can’t remember how much a rabbit was, but it wasn’t very much. We used to have home cured bacon and the rabbits were lovely roast with the bacon.
What about Prothero’s?
Shoe people — Bill Prothero lived right at the crossroads where one road goes for Llanveynoe and the other goes for Craswall. He sold shoes and boots, there were no wellingtons around then. I used to wear boots. Of course, there was the cobbler in the village — Lane the cobblers, where we used to take the shoes for repair every so often — you didn’t have a new pair if the top was good, just a new sole.
Did you ever go to Ewyas Harold? Did they have a market in Ewyas Harold?
Yes, we used to take sheep down sometimes, but more often than not, we sold locally as there were quite a few dealers about in those days. We used to go to the Temple Bar when Mr. Williams was there and he was that slow, they used to call him “Lightning”.
There were no travelling salesmen, not in this area. Sometimes people with bits of machinery but we didn’t have much machinery then, it was the horse and wagon — no 4 wheel drive tractors. We had to plough the land during the war for potatoes — we grew enough potatoes to last us from one time to the next, and we grew a bit of corn and cut it with the binder. The corn came out in sheaves, we put it in the barn then thrash it with the thrashing machine later on, but if we only had a little bit, we used a thing called the “Phillip and Mary” – it was two pieces of wood, tied in the middle the proper name was a “flail”, and bring it down on the corn like. We had a barn at the top – still there now — and the wind would blow through. My father used to do it. I couldn’t do it so used to go up there and watch. We didn’t grow that much as we only had 20 acres, but you did have to grow a certain amount during the War. It was a mixed farm .. with sheep. Hedge trimming was done with a hook. Hedge laying and all was done then without machinery. Cutting thistles was also done with a hook. When you were mowing the field for haymaking, you always used to rake out the backswarf around the hedge with a rake. It was very time consuming. They don’t do that now and waste more than we used to.
Did you go into market at all?
Not very often, no. We had a horse and trap but I don’t expect we went to market; I don’t remember going but some people from Longtown used to go into Hay. We had a van later on and our first tractor in the 1950’s.
There were a lot of men working on the farms. We had an open fire, but we didn’t have a chainsaw, but used a crosscut saw, one man each end. We used to have to help father cut the wood, one of us a each end.
What about washing?
We did it with a scrubbing board and a bar of soap, and a mangle. Of course, the sheets in them days were all heavy twill, not flimsy stuff like today.
What about medical services?
We had a Doctor at Vowchurch, but I never remember once any of use going to the Doctor. Whether it was just luck or what it was, but we never ever went to the Doctor. Good food and exercise. One time the Dr. came to see my brother when he had mumps, but all us children had measles and other childhood illnesses, but we never had the Doctor. It was a long way to come and expensive too. I can’t remember, but we never had any illnesses like, we were very healthy. Children today are always at the Doctors. My mother was two months off a 100 when she died. Must have been a healthy lot.
We had a dentist at school who took teeth out. It was horrible; you could feel them coming out. I always had bad teeth. You didn’t clean your teeth in those days because you didn’t know what a toothbrush and toothpaste was. No such thing like.
What about the pub?
There was a pub at Longtown and one at Dulas and Newton St.Margarets. The men had to walk or ride a bike — which was a bit difficult coming back in the dark. My grandfather used to have a pony and trap and he used to take people down then with him. And sometimes they had a drop too much and went straight past the house or past the turn. You had to have lamps on the side of the trap. Of course there was no trouble then, no vandalism and you could leave your doors open all day and night — different then. Everyone knew everybody like, and if there were any problems everyone came round to help. It was stress free although you had to work hard. You didn’t have time to get into any mischief, sort of thing. You’re too busy doing things, and if your started something off, you were always thinking about getting it finished.
Did you have any hobbies?
We used to knit and sew by candlelight or paraffin lamp until the Tilley lamps came along. It is surprising what we used to do. Mother used to do a terrific amount of sewing. We didn’t often go into town to buy clothes. I can only remember going in once to Marks and Spencers, and I couldn’t believe all the coats and that that was there. My sister had a new coat, and I had a new coat. That is the only time I can remember having a new coat, but we must have had new coats. I had 3 Aunties living in town that kept pubs and my sister and I used to go there at stay in the holidays. They had children so perhaps we had some of their clothes. When the Americans were about we used to go there and stay and always had stacks of sweets from them. They would come to the pub. And me and my sister were about the pub wandering about, and we got to know them and they would bring a lot of sweets so we were well away. We had the sweet rationing then.
It was peculiar because there were black and white Americans, but they didn’t go into the pub together like. If any blacks came in the whites would go away, and vice versa, or whatever like.
But there wasn’t any trouble.
We had one or two prisoners of war around here – Italians. They were good workers.
When I left school, I went to work for a bit in the Post Office at Longtown. Were paid 12/6d a week for 6 days and we used to think we were rich like on that. There was no jobs then only domestic work for girls and we used to help people out if someone was poorly and help about a little bit. Help at home; of course, mother was older by then.
SOCIAL LIFE
We never had holidays
When I was a teenager they used to have socials and dances. I used to be quite a rare one on the dances — I used to go quite regular. We had to walk there and back to Longtown. Would get back quite late, especially if you were a bit weary. They did have busses at Longtown, but they didn’t come down this way. As I said, there were four girls up the farm there; there was quite a crowd of us used to go together and it didn’t seem like such a long way then when you are walking in a crowd sort of thing. The boys would come as well, but they might be half a mile behind, but they would be there.
What about entertainment?
We had the Eisteddfod. Never competed, but I used to go there. My sister and I had music lessons when we were kids. I’ve got a piano now, but I can’t play. I didn’t keep it up. What happened was we used to go to Longtown for lesson from Miss Williams. One Saturday she would come to us on her bike and give us lessons, and the next one we would go down there. She left to go the London College of Music when I was about 14, so I never went on from there. But I didn’t have an ear for music. I went to Abergavenny to pass my Junior exam. We had to ride our bike to Pandy, me and another girl. I shall always remember the piece I had to play — phew. Well!! I can’t remember what it was called. It was the London College of Music I was aiming for!! I got one certificate so I did make a bit of a start.
What about leisure activities?
We used to play a bit of football, climbing trees. I wasn’t too good at climbing trees — I could get up but couldn’t get back down. We were out in the countryside doing all sorts of daft things; just walking about like, looking for birds nests and picking wild strawberries, and seeing what wildflowers you could find. We knew where all the birds nest were and what they were. We never took any eggs, just waited and when we went back, they would be gone. The birds would have hatched. The boys used to go fishing quite a bit. They would have a worm on the end of a stick and be sitting in the room like and fish from an upstairs window. I used to look under the stones and get the fish. There was always something to do like. I used to help dig the garden. We each had a little piece in the garden to grow spuds and lettuce, beans and peas, beetroot. I don’t think we ever did eat our own meat from the farm. We had a butcher come round with the beef. But we used to eat a lot of chickens which we reared.
Did you go into the cinema?
No, not until we were in our late teens. We couldn’t get to Abergavenny or Hereford. We had a wireless. The first one they had was a crystal set with “thing a ma jigs” on their ears. But of course, only one could hear that thing. We used to play darts, when we were kids; ruined the door. We were always playing darts. There were five of us and we put up quite a showing until we went to bed. We played cards and snakes and ladders. The boys used to make tractors with cotton reels
Any special treats?
I don’t think so. We had a special party at school before the Christmas holidays. Do a concert or a pantomime, or something, and have a tea party. They did acting up in Longtown, but it wasn’t much.
What do you think was the happiest day of your life?
I have never ever been unhappy, always contented. I knew if I couldn’t have something, I couldn’t have it, and that is all there is about it, like. You didn’t have HP like they do today; you saved up and quite often by the time you had saved up, you didn’t want it. No I don’t think I was ever unhappy. I did lose a brother and there was sad times, but I think you take it all in your stride. The nurse used to say when mother was alive these sort of times strengthen you. I looked after mother for 12 years.
I was never a churchgoer, but I believe in what you do every day. The goodness you can do for people every day. In the country this is important. I’ve been very fortunate as I have had good health all my life.
Improvements?
I can’t have a mobile ‘phone here as there is no signal, which is a godsend. I’ve got a TV, but you can’t get no signal unless the aerial is high up in the sky somewhere. It’s not too bad really, To start with we could only get BBC1 — but its a lot of old rubbish, ridiculous.
But on the whole, it’s been all right. I think if you are not contented with what you are doing…… you have to be don’t you. I mean money isn’t everything is it. You’ve got to have money of course. Thing haven’t changed an awful lot here. It was hard work — we didn’t have water in the house; but we didn’t know any other way so it didn’t bother us.
What do you dislike most about life today?
Well….. I dunno really. There are terrible things going on in the world, and I’m not keen the way the youngsters just live from day to day. You have to look to the future and put something away for the future, but that is the way I was brought up I suppose.
Is there any folklore around here, local stories that you can remember?
No I don’t think so.
Do your nephews live here with you?
No, but there is always someone about here and they come in at night and get a cup of coffee. I’m more likely to be looking for glow-worms and things like that. There are not many now, but when we were kids there were some up the road; little lights in the hedgerows about May time. The children up the road had never seen a glow-worm, so I told them I would give them a ring when there were some about. Which I did, and down they came with their torches!!! Surprising how many people have never seen a glow-worm.
I’ve got two kingfishers here on the river, and I’ve seen them quite a few times this year, but you have got to be quite quiet. I’ve seen them several times fishing and diving. It’s just luck and plenty of patience. They are lovely birds.
I still find pleasure in these sorts of things. I don’t like the town; it’s boring after here